Interviews -- Kat Chapman

Kat's interview is embedded Below:

Some observations of Kat:

• Speaks with confident, certain language. Many statements have a tone of finality.
• Shifts easily into being pointed and judgmental. Has some barbed commentary for various people or groups of people that she dislikes ("In ten years the same stupid hippies complaining about the water quality will be complaining about the plastic bottles"). As Kat correctly pointed out to me, she does not particularly single out groups -- this observation is intended to identify Kat's ease in railing against people or things.
• Describes issue with needing greater intimacy and authenticity in relationships ("How many times has somebody committed suicide and you didn't even know they were sad?")
• Describes masking herself, difficulty with being vulnerable to people.
• Describes repeatedly that other people are largely a mystery. "I didn't realize that you could look at the inside of people for some time in my life."
• Describes on several occasions the discrepancy between being seen as confident by others, but seeing herself as unconfident. Sees herself as "meticulous and slow." Dislikes uncertainty, crisis management, etc., but is seen as very good at this by others.
• Duty-oriented "put my kids first if they are sick", etc. Dedicated and aware of and often railing against worldly interactants. Does not detach from or worldly circumstances.
• "If someone doesn't have a good relationship with me, I can't be around them at all. I can't ignore it or pretend. [...] It took me a long time to realize that I can't be around people that don't like me."
• "Who the hell needs proof, can't ya see it, it's just so obvious"
• Language using analogy and motion "society ebbs and flows; all about balance."
• "Always teacher's pet." 
• Preference for linearity and lack of ambiguity. Would prefer "if life were like a linear platform game where you get the little star and then move on to the next level." Has a job "ticking boxes" which provides clarity and structure.
• Displays a complete Northern US vowel shift. Most prominent dialectal feature is extreme raising and palatalization of /æ/ following nasals e.g. /mʲe̝əɾɚ/, characteristic of West New York.

At first, I thought from these observations that Kat was ESI. Most of the observations and language Kat uses fits very nicely with this type. She comes across as very confident, organized and dutiful, and especially individualistic and focused on her relationships with close family members.

The interviewer's suggestion of ILI by contrast, I thought, seemed reasonable and close to ESI. However the interviewer also seems to make some leading observations and ask leading questions about Kat's intellect. A typing of ESI explains the intellect, and the Ni-oriented language "Nature ebbs and flows" as Ni mobilizing, while also accounting for Kat's confidence, dislike of ambiguity, and vigilant demeanor that is present in nearly every one of the observations above. By contrast, Kat seems entirely to lack the detachment, apathy, and passivity of Ni dominant types (especially ILIs).


I was content with a typing of ESI but a week or two later I noticed some comments from Kat which, for reasons I wouldn't be able to explain, caused me to come back to this video and rethink the perspective of some of Kat's comments. I realized there were various clues favoring a nearby but different type.

I now think Kat is likely LSI, with clear Se values, Ni mobilizing, and also Fe suggestive. The most prominent observation of which I was reminded was the degree to which Kat mentions not understanding people, and especially not understanding until late in life what is inside them. Yet she seems to have made it a major goal of hers to further her understanding of others in this way. A very subtle distinction can be seen in the way that rather than emphasizing her sentiments towards the people around her specifically, Kat emphasizes a) her *duties/obligations* towards the people around her and b) the need for authenticity and purity in her close relations. I can see this emphasis as like the suggestive Fe of LSIs, although I can understand why anyone who sees Kat as ESI would disagree.


The other main observation is that Kat's description of herself -- as "not knowing what is inside herself" and describing the discrepancy between how others see her as a confident, reliable person whereas she sees herself as hectically disorganized and uncertain -- is something I am able to see among LSIs, especially older LSIs with developed Fe. Another person who has this set of characteristics is this lady. The common theme with Kat is "Pretty much what people see is what they get... except A B and C." In Kat's there is a similar sense of directness, with a concomitant discrepancy between Kat's inner world and external brittleness.

There are various other small hints in the language surrounding Ti values and an orientation towards rule structures, including Kat's descriptions of how she was always the "square" in the school yet ended up socializing with "the drunks," and the somewhat iconic quote "Who needs proof, can't ya see it?"

Again, a typing of ESI would be very reasonable here and you could argue that in many ways the ESI has a similar dynamic to the small hints I have pointed out. Arguing convincingly against ESI is probably not something I can do. But I think ESIs with Fi+Ni are a little less uncertain about what goes on in their inner worlds and would less easily make statements like "I did not realize for a long time that you could see the inside of people."